Just when we thought the Arab street was coming together in a tremendous show of solidarity with the ongoing Tunisian uprising against the police state of Ben Ali, a deadly bombing targeting a church in the Egyptian city of Alexandria, has again raised concern about religious fanaticism and sectarian divisions. The bombing is feared to have killed a dozen victims and wounded a dozen more. The news is still unfolding and the circumstances yet unclear. The first amateur videos from the scene have already started to emerge on the Internet and there are reports of violent clashes between Christians and the police in the streets of Alexandria. The bombing occurred just minutes into 2011, robbing Egyptians and many others (me included) from the short enjoyment and celebration of the new year. This acted as a reminder of the two main ills that plague the Arab world: dictatorship and religious politics. Of course we still don’t know the exact circumstances of this cowardly act, but there are strong reasons to believe that religion has something to do with this. And please no more stupid conspiracy theories about the Mossad, the CIA, Mickey Mouse and what have you. I am trying to choose my words carefully here, but I think that religion, allowed into the political sphere, breeds violence. In the same way a doctor won’t be advocating for light smoking, I, for one, won’t be using the term “religious extremism” in a way that would suggest that it is any distinct from religious politics. Religion meddling into politics is as bad for human beings as a cigarette put into the mouth of a smoker.
From the bankruptcy of Arab regimes, to the failure of education, to the rise in unemployment together with the rise in religious fanaticism, things are bad. Really bad.
I feel angst and revolt a the moment. This, unexpectedly, has reminded me of a scene from a movie called Network. At some point the actor playing the role of an news anchor, faces his audience and calls for people to rise up and shout out their anger and revolt. (disclaimer: the anchor’s speech borrows from the right wing republican rhetoric, but far from subscribing to that, if you scrap the political backdrop from it, all the acting that remains is gloriously telling.)
For updates on the Alexandria bombing follow #EgyChurch and #Alexandria on Twitter.
Good! You’re moving from denial to anger in the Kübler-Ross model.
Religion has everything to do with it:
–The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
— Mohammed is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
— Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
— Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
— We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
— I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)
— Muhammad said: “I have been made victorious through terror.”
— Muhammad said: “Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, …”
— Mohammed said, “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, “None has the right to be worshiped but Allah, and whoever says, ” None has the right to be worshiped but Allah , his life and property will be saved by me.”
— Allah’s Apostle said, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, ‘O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ “
the alexandria bombing atrocity, is a crime that needs a motive and a beneficiary identified ,to narrow down the list of possible suspects.
egyptians , moslems in particular can be excluded because they stand to loose most form such an act, unless they are traitors or agents of an enemy.
the perpetrator is just an instrument that is most probably indoctrinated by criminal masterminds.unknowingly commiting a hideous crime that is against the principles alledged by the masterminds they want to protect.they in reality are the arch enemies of those principals.
now, what is left is to find out, is it state terrorism or otherwise.
the possible motives , and a study of the amator videos and the timing and organisation of the vigilante attacks against the neighbouring mosque before the identification of the identity of the assailant ,carry some clues.
this rush to judgment should be studied in detail ,as it points to a preplanned response to the event, that might have valuable clues.
as an egyptian ,i am heart broken as are all the egyptians around me ,particularly moslems, as they see it as here we are again , the forces of evil have once again hijacked their religion and smeared their patriotism ,and love for their christian bretheren.
and as they morn their fallen compatriots ,they find themselves the objects of suspicion ,with a viscious and persistant malicious campaign of defamation by certain sectors of the media worldwide that have loud and far reaching instruments.
i say ,the truth always finds its way to the light.so hang in there.
Do not you, stand there and tell me that you, the Muslims are the ones who have fallen victim to this heinous crime, this unspeakable atrocity. Do not try to convince me or any other for that matter that Muslims are in any way more heartbroken than those who have suffered the attack, have some pride and do yourself that favor at least. I ask you this, where is this love for your brethren, fellow Egyptians, where does it hide when we are being blown up, or shot in the street?? This is not the first act of violence committed against the Copts of Egypt, I ask you to think back to the events of Naga Hamady if you will. So please do not attempt to shift peoples attention away from the true crime, do not attempt to make Islam and Muslims the victim in this. Egypt is a victim here, but the greatest victims in this plight are undoubtedly the Copts of Egypt, who have continued to suffer in a nation that is seemingly unwilling to provide them with any protection, despite the clear threats that have been issued by terrorist groups (I do not believe that terrorism is an act of religion, but when the group issuing these threats bears the name of a religion and claims to be acting by it then I don’t really know what else to think). I know that it is not the Muslim population that is to blame for this, but a radical group, be it religious extremists or simply a terrorist group, however it infuriates me when people look the issue in the mouth and somehow manage to make Islam the victim of this horrific act rather than acknowledge the terrible loss that others have suffered and lend their voices and support to their ‘brethren’ who are so obviously in dire need of it. Then there are those who will try to deny that the issue has anything to do with sectarianism, fanaticism and religion as a whole, to those people, I ask if not based on religious prejudice then what is this targeting based on, what a coincidence that the number of times we have seen such acts of hatred and evil come to pass in Egypt that Copts have been the ones to fall victim to them ? If you do believe that it is pure coincidence then please do not even bother to reply to my comment, for you are beyond help, and I will surely be completely infuriated with you, so let’s avoid that. To mo you do not even merit a reply, your grammar seems to far exceed you intellect, how can the Muslims stand to lose more than the innocent men women and children who lose their lives ? And pre-planned response ?? What have you been sniffing lately? This is the response of a people who are sick of bring targeted, bullied and ultimately oppressed in their own homeland.
dear fellow egyptian ,i share your anger and frustration,and mourn with you all our fallen egyptians.
i just wanted to shed a light on the trap being prepared for our land .
in this dark hour for our nation, it is a daunting task , to think beyond the obvious , in spite of extreme pain and inflammed emotions.
but that is what it takes to escape the ills of hatred being implanted among the inhabitants of this land.to their detriment.
please accept my sincere condolances, and if i may ,i would like to ask you to read my comments again without prejudging me.
Proof that it was Buddhist monks who killed people in that Church 🙂
Bebs I would be glad to accept your condolences, allow me to send you mine for the loss that Egypt and all Egyptians have suffered. Having re-read you previous comment I am unfortunately obliged to stick by my original stance in asking you not to try to make Islam and Muslims the victim in this, for while they did lose something it is nothing compared to what the Copts of our previously great nation stand have lost and still stand to lose, I ask you to keep your pride and realize this, and withdraw that comment, because (allow me to apologize in advance for the harshness of what I am about to say) it makes you seem pathetic and heartless, and I have a feeling that you are neither, the attack on Islam will surely be acknowledged and adressed, but when the time is right, for now do you not think that the lives of your brethren are more important than some small slander, or attack on the reputation of Muslims and Islam ? The pressing issue in my eyes is the safety of those who have been blatantly targeted and threatened, and as long as tthis threat stands against the Copts, your brothers I see that it takes precedence and priority until the threats are adressed and the security of those people is guaranteed and achieved by this nation to me all else takes second place. Until the time comes for this issue to be addressed allow me to say that I am sorry if you have seen that you and your religion have been unjustly treated and portrayed, but I leave you to ponder this, a simple question, one with no prejudice, what are the people to think of the attacks when the group issuing the threats behind them is called “the Islamic nation of Iraq” ? Are people not to assume that this group and the attacks that they have threatened to perpetrate has some affiliation with Islam ? People are merely putting 2 and 2 together, now it may turn out that they are erring and getting a solution of 5, but only time will tell that. I would also like to say that I have not in any way pre-judged you as I believe that stereotypes achieved by prejudice or pre-judgement as you call it are a huge contributor to the problem we face today. (also I can’t have pre-judged you for I know nothing about you, other than that you are an egyptian, and if anything that made me hold you in somewhat higher esteem).
.. haste makes waste Mr.Ambassador
..or a suicide bomber?radical Skoda?
“You oughta believe”
“the ****** doesn’t threaten people, it’s not the mafia”
“Lotz contributed to the ****** campaign of threatening German scientists working in Egypt, mainly by writing threatening letters.”
-Recruiting an unemployed young man is quite easy and he can always be replaced, A top official, a trusted officer at a sensitive department with many years of espionage experience is an irreplaceable asset.
“internet warfare”(what’s happening here!?)
Israel has nothing to gain from destabilizing its strongest ally in the region.
Why is it so hard to admit that religions make people do bad things?
strongest ally? what dream world are you living in.. have you even read the links. Israel’s stronest ally exposed its most powerful spy network in the region including one in its biggest foe Iran and hizbolla. Why does Israel insist to have an area the size of the Netherlands inside Egypt as a demilitarised buffer zone..that doesn’t sound like a relation between allies it’s not about destabilising as much as sending a message.
Yeah religion makes people do crazy things but not in this case.. Kadour, you need to do a lot of reading.
There has been a history of intolerance between Christians and Muslims in Egypt.. no one is denying that but it had a very familiar pattern..never had any kind of planning..spontaneous, sporadic, always driven out of rage, passion, land disputes… petty fights etc, stuff like that and what happened when things erupted? drive by shootings, stabbings.. in other words gang bang style, and almost all in the south part of the country where there isn’t much tolerance and people are very hot-blooded. This time it’s very very different.. a car bomb or a suicide bomb in a northern city known for tolerance between Muslims and Christians.
I don’t understand you sceptics always accusing anyone speaking differently from the hogwash on mainstream media as paranoid or delusional or avoiding to admit something when history tells us otherwise.. remember covert operations are only exposed when they fail so it’s only natural to appear as something else. You have to think..why? not just watch the telly and say..alright that must be it! they can’t be lying can they?..it’s not that they are complicit they just don’t know like you and I and are simply covering their arses! a politician or a government official lying? unbelievable!
the series of events indicates that the ring captured in Egypt has exposed other networks operating in other countries, namely Syria, Lebanon and Iran.. Egypt contacted Syria with the information and the latter exposed the rest.. like a domino affect. The captured spy in Syria seems to be of most importance to the Mossad and allegedly worked for them for like 14 years, this sounds like a big blow; is it far fetched that this attack was a retaliation? bearing in mind that up till now, no one claimed responsiblity..and other than vague threats on some sites, there is no real evidence of involvement of any radical group..[one of the sites that issued the threat, after the bomb; issued a statement of no involvement whatsoever and that was a bluff to try to free ‘abducted muslims’] it’s been 4 days and AlQaeda has never been shy of taking responsiblity within a few hours. The Israeli Ambassador left in a rather strange way too.. very unconventional for a diplomat, he was not summoned by his country-at least not formally, he did not inform the Egyptian Foreign affairs minister of his leave..which is against protocols, it’ s almost like he’s fleeing.
During the time of the attack, a group of 350 Israeli tourists were in Alexandria after making a pilgrimage to rabbi AbouHatzeira shrine in a nearby town. According to a local Alexandria paper /shourouknews, 4 of them went missing that evening , The Police didn’t take it seriously as it’s normal for some tourists to separate from the group and stray for sightseeing/shopping etc although somewhat unfamiliar with Israeli pilgrimages for security reasons.
The minister statement is very fishy, he said it had to be a suicide bomber when all the witnesses insist it was a car bomb. That minister apparently knew it was a suicide bomber without any reports, it was 2 hours after the attack and ambulances and fire brigades have not yet left the scene let alone the arrival of a forensic team.. he issued that statement without any proof and up till now they didn’t present any solid proof or evidence that there was a suicide bomber except that 2 of the bodies were ‘unidentified, later another body was identified by a kin..so now leaves one body unaccounted which of course is not scientific, he might be from another town visiting and just a passerby.. on several footage and pics, it is very clear that the police had cordoned the car with tape and were probing it..obviously they know there is something with the car but why state it’s not a car bomb when apparently their investigation is around the car. and it wasn’t a suicdebomber driving the car, the car was parked in front of the entrance and that minister specifically said a suicide bomber on foot as if trying to divert any attention from the car. That car actualy belongs to one of the churchgoers..that’s why if that car was rigged, it had to be done quickly by a professional and planted underneath. Obviously something the Mossad are trained for by the ones who keep getting caught in Telaviv on drills by uninformed police.
This is not about bombay or whatever, this is about countries that Israel has a long history of meddling in their affairs and a history of covert operations. 15 espionage cases since the 179 peace treaty and before that maybe another 10..and at least 4 false flag operations in Egypt alone that had been exposed and blown out.. they are no longer secret, you can even read about it on wikipedia(the portal they have a special unit to manipulate its content)
like operationSusannah, one of their biggest failure:
The BBC’s reporter, one of the most neutral news networks in the world, isn’t even buying it..it’s all very weird and why that specific church..right infront of the mosque, perhaps to make it easy for the enraged Christians coming out the churhc oto find a target to storn and vent their fury..which did actually happen, with Qurans getting burnt in the street and shattering the rest of the windows that were still intact after the explosion[both the mosque and the church suffered which shows you the proximity to each other..about 10 metres away.. had the bomb detonated a couple of hours later the victims would have all been muslims going to fajr prayer!
Is it really really far-fetched that they could have been involved in that one?? think about it..
The bomb was packed with nuts and bolts, and bits of metal, to cause maximum damage. Whoever [B]planted[/B] it appears [B]intent on inflaming hatred[/B] between Egypt’s 8 million Christians and more than 70 million Muslims.
Rupert Wingfield-Hayes BBC News, Alexandria(on scene reporter)
Read the inset in case you miss it..or perhaps you will say that reporter is a conspiracy theorist and doesn’t want to admit religion makes people do mad things.
Do you know why he sez planted, because every single eyewitness who was on the scene or arrived early on insists that that green skoda felicia was rigged, they are not buying that suicide bomber codswallop..they know what they saw.. an airborne car weighing over a tonne!
It’s just common sense, all you need is to put two and tow together, open your eyes and think for yourself
here more links to make you think:
I mean those are not underground links, or conspiracy news sites..those are your regular BBC and Guardian news, they publish the mainstream hogwash.. but they slip, you need to read between the lines and most importantly THINK
somewhere there it reads:
Officials initially thought the attack was caused by a car bomb, but later said it was a suicide bomber standing in a crowd.
now read the commentary under the picture and LOOK at the picture
The CAR BOMB exploded as worshippers left a new year’s service at the al-Qiddissin church shortly after midnight
Now what does that tell you? although the BBC published the official bollocks ‘suicide bomber’, the editorial had the integrity to publish what they have heard from eyewitnesses who were there for at least an hour before the cops showed up.
Now read this link:
The top Coptic cleric in Alexandria, Archbishop Arweis, said the security services wanted to blame a suicide bomber instead of a car bomb so they could write it off as something carried out by a lone attacker.
how about that? Even Arweis isn’t buying that crap, surely he isn’t trying to divert blame to the Mossad.. he knows what he saw and what he has heard from his parish
Even the Copts united and Copt Tv sites insist that it was a car bomb. Those are very radical Christian movements, if they can, they would love to blame it on Mohamed and Allah himself..surely they aren’t Qaidea sympathisers?!
so what’s the big deal, what’s difference does it make if it’s not a suicide bomber and indeed a Car bomb? maybe the suicide bomber was inside the car?! right?
No love..very wrong and a huge difference, The car belonged to one of the Christians was attending mass, so no one broke in it..it was rigged at the chassis[planted just like that Mossad new recruit was doing on his drill in Tel Aviv] which also explains why the car decided to become an airplane for a few seconds AND there wasn’t a single body part inside it..meaning it is impossible that any one was inside that car.
Now you can ask yourself this:
Suicide bomber: who usually does that?hmm..yeah we know
Car bomb: remotely detonated..yes, we also know who does that too and we also know that it isn’t how Islamische operate..they wanna go to the heavens and a remote bomb isn’t exactly the quick route to martyrdom
Now you may ask, why would the Egyptian government coverup for the Mossad and lie so shamelessly when it damn well knows that many people who were there know what really happened..well, that could be for several reasons:
1- If that is a message from the mossad, they got it loud(very loud) and clear..they would not want to risk facing more retaliations, furthermore..the Egyptian government would not like to expose infiltrations of such scope and shortcoming in its intelligence both to the world and to its own people.
2- They don’t have enough evidence to pin it on the Mossad, so they could just point fingers..risk damaging diplomatic relations and believe you me, the world will jump in to backup Israel against those brainwashed Egyptian officials.. after all, 2 dead Nuclear scientists in Iran and several Paltestina activists in Syria and Lebanon just self combusted. In other words, if you don’t have enough evidence like what happened in Dubai and Magrahy..then just shut up for your own good.
3- responsibilte 1: Regardless of who they pin it on, a car bomb is not good for the Egyptian government because it screams of incompetence and negligence. It has to be a suicide bomber because just like archbishop Arweis has said, it’s easier to evade blame.. a suicde bomber is a passerby, you can not know his intentions..even if the cops became suspicious he will always detonate himself before anyone can stop them.
A car bomb means that the 4 coppers sitting outside the church are useless idiots, first, as a security measurement, it’s forbidden in city law to allow cars to park near house of worship[whether Mosques or Churches] during times of prayers/mass/festivities etc. Meaning that the policemen guarding the church willing allowed the owner to park there, obviously because they knew him well and knew he was Christian.. giving the golden opportunity to the agent[or islamist..feel better now? whoever] to plant the bomb. The person who planted the bomb, no matter how skilled he/she is[could very likely bee a she] and as we know they have lots of training in not attracting attention in congested areas when planting bombs[check second link under overview], they have easily planted it without getting any attention or causing a kerfuffle.
4- Responsibilty 2: During huge masses like one on New year’s eve or Orthodox christmas, they deploy more guards than just 4..usually at least 20 with a couple at each end of the street..especially for big churches with lots of attendees, however new year’s eve coinciding with a pilgrimage of Israeli pilgrams[Abouhazaeri-Damanhour], which is a nearby town to Alexandria, the event which lasts for like a week with Israeli tourists coming and leaving, they needed all their special central security conscripts to protect them in Damanhour, where people there are getting increasingly impatient and angry with those pilgrms every year who bring their town to standstill and turn it into some sort of military camp. The nearest city to pull those coppers from is naturally Alexandria.. I don’t know how many, but locals[in Damanhor] say at least 4,000 were ppulled out from Alexandria. Of course leaving the big city with the police to beat up protesters but not enough to actually protect it.
You should come to terms with the fact that it was very likely followers of Mohammed who are behind that crime. If it was something out of the blue, I could agree with you. But it fits perfectly in the jihadist agenda. Especially because it received the approval of many an Egyptian Muslim. They want to drive the Christians out of the country, like they drove off Pagans and so many Jews. The same pattern can be observed all across the “Arab” world.
In other words, it makes sense!
But when you say it’s the Mossad, well…it doesn’t! The Mossad assassinates people it deems a threats to Israel. Sure! But it doesn’t go around fostering hatred and destabilizing its allies by killing innocents. It makes no sense!
You are detached from reality. You think that just because *you* would not blow up an Egyptian church in the name of Allah, other people won’t do it either!
You should debate facts with facts, If you don’t have facts then you can’t discredit me and your argument is weak.
“fact that it was very likely followers of Mohammed who are behind that crime.”
This is not a fact that is a very bad assumption..almost crazy, neither is it being the Mossad is a fact but according to evidence, it’s a much more probable assumption and studying recent events..it’s 95% possibility.. however I did not state it as fact but as I have already proved to you, it was not a suicide bomber but a car bomb..this is scientific fact, you can’t debate it.
The events leading to what happened are facts. The government lying about the nature of the bomb is a fact.
Much of the Christian protests happening in Egypt now is because they know it was a car bomb and think the government is covering up something, some even think the government itself is the perpetrator because they can’t understand logic in such a lie. All the eyewitnesses agree on one thing CAR BOMB, are you trying to make me exhausted by repeating myself?
now comes the question..who is more likely to plant a car bomb? Jihadist attacks use suicide bombers.. now that is a fact, remotely detonated bombs are not the work of Islamists.
Milad Hanna a prominent and respected Christian writer, an independent historian in a TV interview has hinted to the coverup of the car bomb..clearly saying, witnesses believe it was a car bomb but the government was very early to dismiss it without proof.
Listen to official announcement by minsiter of interior(240 km away from Alexandria) and just 2 hours after the bomb exploded: “it is not a car bomb, we are certain but we think it’s likely to be a suspected suicide bomber” his exact words, translated from Arabic..read again:”it’s likely to be a suspected suicide bomber” what kind of official statement is that? ..and how can he be certain it isn’t a car bomb yet hes not sure that it’s a suicide bomber? this sounds like nonsense.. it’s either or, either a car bomb or a suicide bomber..if you are sure it’s not a car bomb means you have scientific evidence and solid concrete proof it is a suicide bomber..2 hours after attack, never been to the scene in his home in Cairo? this is rubbish.. you only have 2 possibilites, if it’s not a car bomb then it must be a suicide bomber..what else can it be? a gas leak? bid bird made a big fart? godzilla?
now what are you talking about here:
“Especially because it received the approval of many an Egyptian Muslim. ”
where did you read that? Jihadist forum…fox news? ynet news? and these are your facts? I don’t even think those rags would make such a claim. You don’t understand anything about this country and obviously repeating rubbish you read somewhere… no brain to do your own thinking?
“Sure! But it doesn’t go around fostering hatred and destabilizing its allies by killing innocents.”
no kidding! another one from planet ‘eyes wide shut’. not to mention the numerous atrocities since before its creation..ever heard of USS liberty? obviously not..do some research, how’s that for killing innocents and destabilising its allies?
you remind me of people who see a cat of TV but then an airhead or goverment official tells them..this is not a cat, this is a horse they become convinced it’s a horse, refuse any debate that it’s a horse..although they can clearly see it’s a cat but their brain has been programmed to see the cat as a horse, it’s incorrigible
Hey look..see nice horsie:
no no..it’s not a cat, it’s a horse
hey look, ..see suicide bomber:
no it’s not a car bomb..it’s a suicide bomber on foot(according to Habib Aladly) who was not in the car or sitting on the car on under the car, he was no near the car but this happened to the parked car(not even in projectile motion) and not a single body remain inside,on or under the car that only means what you see is a suicide bomber because the car itself is a suicde bomber it’s an extremist suicide bomber, his name is Skoda from the Czech republic(it’s green because he is a football fan with painted face)
“You are detached from reality.”
yes yes, of course I am the one detached from reality..I can see fluffy horses.
“You think that just because *you* would not blow up an Egyptian church in the name of Allah, other people won’t do it either!”
is that a fact or assumption of my identity or religion, I don’t really understand? I am not a muslim or Egyptian for that matter.. I work in Egypt, yes.
We are not discussing what people can do or what they can’t do, I’m not here to defend anyone or take a stand for anyone or against anyone, this is for you brainwashed simpletons and your wacky debates religion vs religion..I talk science and facts. what happened was a car bomb..a remotely detonated car bomb(of course you see it as a suicide bomber..that needs medical attention I think:debrainwashing?… Now car bomb= Islamiscts groupe?(not single one assume responsibilty. no..car bomb is someone else..you draw your own conclusion, maybe an extremist unicorn? if it was a suicide bomber, I’dn’t have this discussion because suicide bomber=fundamentalist. case closed. but it’s a car bomb 100% planted remotely detonated car bomb.. not a shred of doubt. of course to you that’s another thing or GIYUS… never mind.
hey look, another beautiful Russian horsie:
Conspiracy theories often rely on legitimate concerns. c53a’s does not even clear that level. Who frankly cares if the Egyptian government mistook a car bomb for a suicide bomber?
Your story amounts to little more than this:
“This is not a fact that is a very bad assumption..almost crazy”
Sure, sure…it must be buddhist monks.